Sunday, June 12, 2005
Kansas Science Hearing Transcipt Follies: Leonard's Epiphany
This is the official transcipt of the cross-examination of Bryan Leonard, a high school biology teacher at Hilliard Davidson High School in a suburb of Columbus, Ohio and intelligent design "expert witness," by Pedro Irigonegaray, the attorney who represented mainstream science at the Kansas science hearings in May.
Leonard is a doctoral candidate in science education at Ohio State University. His dissertation research is on the academic merits of an ID-based “critical analysis” approach to teaching evolution in public schools. In essence, the critical analysis amounts to "teaching the controversy." His testimony was based on this research.
When you read in the transcript Leonard's evasive statement that "I teach them actually what I believe is the best science," his answer should be read in the context of "teaching the controversy."
As has been reported on Panda's Thumb, Leonard's dissertation defense has been postponed following charges that his thesis committee was stacked with intelligent design supporters, rather than experts in the field -- as required by the rules of Ohio State University's School of Teaching and Learning in the College of Education.
Red State Rabble wonders if this testimony was a the sort epiphany that gave Leonard a glimpse of what his dissertation defense might look like if his committee were composed of experts rather than intelligent design "theorists."
Pedro Irigonegary: All right. I have a few questions that I want to ask you for the record. First, what is your opinion as to what the age of the world is?
Bryan Leonard: I really don't have an opinion.
PI: You have no opinion as to what the age of the world is?
BL: Four to four point five billion years is what I teach my students.
PI: I'm asking what is your opinion as to what the age of the world is?
BL: 'Um, I was asked to come out here to talk about my experiences as a high school biology teacher.
PI: I'm asking you, sir --
BL: I was not under the impression that I was asked to come out here --
PI: I'm asking you --
BL: -- talking about --
PI: -- sir, what is your personal opinion as to what the age of the world is?
BL: Four-- four to four point five billion years is what I teach my students, sir.
PI: That's not my question. My question is, what is your personal opinion as to what the age of the world is?
BL: Again, I was under the impression to come out here and talk about my professional experience --
PI: Is there a difference?
BL: -- more of --
PI: Is there a difference between your personal opinion and what you teach students the age of1the world is?
BL: Four to four point five billion years is what I teach my students, sir.
PI: Is-- my question is, is there a difference between your personal opinion and what you teach your students?
BL: Again, you're putting a spin on the question is-- you know, now I'll spin any answer, sir, to say that my opinion is irrelevant. Four to four point five billion years is what I teach my students.
PI: The record will reflect your answer. Do you--do you accept the general principle of common descent, that all of life was biologically related to the beginning of life? Yes or no?
BL: No.
PI: Do you accept that human beings are related by common descent to pre-hominid ancestors? Yes or no?
BL: No.
PI: What is your alternative explanation as to how human species came into existence?
BL: During my power point presentation I discussed nothing about offering an alternative, I just simply stated that here's the supporting and here is the information challenging --
PI: My question is, sir, if you do not accept, if you don't-- do not accept that there is a common descent to human existence, what is your alternative? I'm not asking you about your power point. I'm asking you what is your hypothesis for how we came to be?
BL: Again, as I stated, that professionally that's something that-- that is a different question I guess in terms of my professional, in terms of my personal opinion, that's different. Again, I was asked to come out here and give my professional assessment, sir.
PI: Do you teach your students your personal opinion or do you attempt to teach your students what is the best of science?
BL: As I said, I teach my students the four point --
PI: That's not my question. Listen carefully.
BL: All right.
PI: Do you teach your students your personal opinion or do you teach them what you believe is the best science?
BL: I teach them actually what I believe is the best science, hence the scientific interpretation both supporting and scientific interpretation both challenging macroevolution. Science Hearing And that information has been generated by scientists, some of these scientists are here today.
Leonard is a doctoral candidate in science education at Ohio State University. His dissertation research is on the academic merits of an ID-based “critical analysis” approach to teaching evolution in public schools. In essence, the critical analysis amounts to "teaching the controversy." His testimony was based on this research.
When you read in the transcript Leonard's evasive statement that "I teach them actually what I believe is the best science," his answer should be read in the context of "teaching the controversy."
As has been reported on Panda's Thumb, Leonard's dissertation defense has been postponed following charges that his thesis committee was stacked with intelligent design supporters, rather than experts in the field -- as required by the rules of Ohio State University's School of Teaching and Learning in the College of Education.
Red State Rabble wonders if this testimony was a the sort epiphany that gave Leonard a glimpse of what his dissertation defense might look like if his committee were composed of experts rather than intelligent design "theorists."
Pedro Irigonegary: All right. I have a few questions that I want to ask you for the record. First, what is your opinion as to what the age of the world is?
Bryan Leonard: I really don't have an opinion.
PI: You have no opinion as to what the age of the world is?
BL: Four to four point five billion years is what I teach my students.
PI: I'm asking what is your opinion as to what the age of the world is?
BL: 'Um, I was asked to come out here to talk about my experiences as a high school biology teacher.
PI: I'm asking you, sir --
BL: I was not under the impression that I was asked to come out here --
PI: I'm asking you --
BL: -- talking about --
PI: -- sir, what is your personal opinion as to what the age of the world is?
BL: Four-- four to four point five billion years is what I teach my students, sir.
PI: That's not my question. My question is, what is your personal opinion as to what the age of the world is?
BL: Again, I was under the impression to come out here and talk about my professional experience --
PI: Is there a difference?
BL: -- more of --
PI: Is there a difference between your personal opinion and what you teach students the age of1the world is?
BL: Four to four point five billion years is what I teach my students, sir.
PI: Is-- my question is, is there a difference between your personal opinion and what you teach your students?
BL: Again, you're putting a spin on the question is-- you know, now I'll spin any answer, sir, to say that my opinion is irrelevant. Four to four point five billion years is what I teach my students.
PI: The record will reflect your answer. Do you--do you accept the general principle of common descent, that all of life was biologically related to the beginning of life? Yes or no?
BL: No.
PI: Do you accept that human beings are related by common descent to pre-hominid ancestors? Yes or no?
BL: No.
PI: What is your alternative explanation as to how human species came into existence?
BL: During my power point presentation I discussed nothing about offering an alternative, I just simply stated that here's the supporting and here is the information challenging --
PI: My question is, sir, if you do not accept, if you don't-- do not accept that there is a common descent to human existence, what is your alternative? I'm not asking you about your power point. I'm asking you what is your hypothesis for how we came to be?
BL: Again, as I stated, that professionally that's something that-- that is a different question I guess in terms of my professional, in terms of my personal opinion, that's different. Again, I was asked to come out here and give my professional assessment, sir.
PI: Do you teach your students your personal opinion or do you attempt to teach your students what is the best of science?
BL: As I said, I teach my students the four point --
PI: That's not my question. Listen carefully.
BL: All right.
PI: Do you teach your students your personal opinion or do you teach them what you believe is the best science?
BL: I teach them actually what I believe is the best science, hence the scientific interpretation both supporting and scientific interpretation both challenging macroevolution. Science Hearing And that information has been generated by scientists, some of these scientists are here today.
